“If you scratch the surface of all lives, you will find stories everywhere, and what it takes is one human being to value another life.” –Robyn Archer

One of the many programs the Montefiore Home offers to its residents is an opportunity to participate in the Life Story Program. This program, now in its 11th year, relies on a group of dedicated volunteers, who have the pleasure and opportunity to record the Life Stories of our residents. Both residents and volunteers find this uplifting and mutually rewarding. Many new and lasting friendships are made; as one volunteer said, “Strangers become good friends.”

It is an honour and a pleasure to be part of this unique program.

–Rene Ichilcik
Life Story Coordinator

A DIFFICULT BUT LUCKY LIFE

Elizabeth (Lisl) Ziegler was born Elizabeth Schacherl in Vienna on the twenty third of August 1917. Her father, Isidor Schacherl, was born in Bratislava, one of four boys and one girl. Her mother, Elsa, one of six children, was born in Bohemia. Her maternal grandfather, Bernard Schick, who came to Vienna from Czechoslovakia, was supervisor of a number of apartment houses including the one in which the Schacherls lived in the Glasergasse close to the Franz Josef Bahnhof. Both grandparents died before Lisl was born.  The Schacherl family was a household of enlightened, free thinkers. Her mother, Elsa Schacherl, was a strong, independent and self-sufficient woman, well read and politically active.  Despite caring for Lisl and her older sister Fritzi she still successfully ran a small wholesale button business from the family home.

Her father Isidor sold the buttons to tailors and menswear shops. Lisl’s father was an atheist but she feels that her mother was more traditional.

When Isidor joined the Austrian army in WW1, Elsa joined up on the home front, as a municipal tram conductor. When Isidor returned from the war shell-shocked and suffering from Parkinson’s disease (a complication of the “Spanish” ‘flu’), he was never able to re-enter the work force. Nevertheless Elsa valiantly cared for him and despite their terrible financial hardships, ensured that both her girls went to school and joined the local socialist youth group. 

As her parents were committed to giving Lisl a good education she was initially sent to a private school. Lisl describes this school as “useless” and the teacher as a “Nazi”.  After two years she transferred to a public school. From there she went to a well-known vocational high school “Fachschule für Grossküchen Betrieb” where she specialized in nutrition and cooking.  Fritzi went to a vocational college specialising in dressmaking. 

When Lisl was only 13 years old, her mother Elsa contracted bone  cancer.    With Isidor unable to work and with mounting doctors’ bills, they brought Elsa home from hospital.  Both girls had to leave school, Fritzi to run the button business and Lisl to care for their desperately sick mother, which she did for the next two years.  Elsa died in 1934 followed by Isidor not long afterwards.

The two orphan girls continued to live in their parent’s flat with some support from their mother’s oldest married sister, Ida; Tante Marie who had an adopted son Ernst and lived close by.

Early in their lives the Schacherl girls were exposed to all sorts of open houses, particularly after the death of their parents.  Lisl’s friend, Brixie Steinlitz, made sure the girls were always included in Friday night dinner at her well-to-do family home. There they were assured of meals that they could not otherwise have afforded, as well as a steady stream of food for thought.  It was a household frequented by Vienna’s prominent artists, writers and socialist politicians who were always wandering in and out. It didn’t take long for the Schacherl girls to realise the value of a “jour fixe”.  Wednesday night became open house at their small flat where likeminded friends and comrades gathered to discuss socialism and politics.   

Among them was Leo Zimmerman, whom Fritzi married during one of the intervals when he was not in jail. At that time Austria was governed by Schuschnigg and Leo was often jailed for his socialist views.

In 1938 he was detained at a concentration camp in Wöllersdorf. When Fritzi finally obtained his release it was on the understanding that he would leave Austria forever. As Fritzi did not have the completed papers necessary for his release he was allowed to leave, escorted by guards to the border from where he travelled to Paris. Leo was pressuring Fritzi to come to Paris and she finally left Vienna on March 1st 1938 leaving Lisl alone to manage the business.

Fritzi and Leo survived the war. The couple spent the war years in France working for the French resistance. After the war they returned to Vienna as Leo wanted to help rebuild the Fatherland. Lisl didn’t like her brother in law. She felt he “wasn’t very nice” to Fritzi.

MEETING ERICH

Lisl first met her husband Erich Ziegler as a patient.  Erich was a medical graduate from Vienna University and he had taken over the practice of Dr Jerusalem in Lerchenfelderstrasse, who had left to participate in the Spanish civil war.  Lisl had returned from a vacation in Dalmatia with a backache and chills.  Her sister rang the office of Dr Jerusalem, not knowing that he had left. The call was referred to Erich who made a house call.  Lisl remembers that on examining her he commented on how brown her back was. Erich soon became involved in the Wednesday night “jour-fixe” – there were some 14 people there – and he came quite often. Finally it became a love affair. 

Lisl used to go every Sunday by tram to Erich’s parent’s apartment in the Taborstrasse to have lunch.  Lisl was well liked by Erich’s mother and father (also a doctor) and she always received a very friendly reception.  His sister Lisa knitted Lisl a beautiful pullover which she wore frequently for many years.

 With the Nazi threat increasing Lisl and Erich decided to leave Vienna, but getting visas for another country was difficult.

After years of uncertainty in France, Erich’s sister Lisa, was the first to leave in May 1938 for Paris and with her young nephew Francis in tow, eventually reaching Havana, where Francis’ parents and sister had earlier arrived. Erich having been refused a visa for France was able to obtain a visa for Norway. He boarded a plane for Helsinki on August 13th 1938 with the understanding that a cousin, Othmar Ziegler, would get him off the plane in Prague and arrange for him to stay there. Erich left the plane in Prague and was arrested when it was found that he was travelling on false papers. His cousin acted as his guarantor which allowed him to stay in Prague for 2 days. This was extended to two weeks. Another cousin, Alfred Ziegler, was the honorary consul for Uruguay in Brün.

Alfred provided a visa and a ship ticket for Uruguay on the understanding that this would enable Erich to reach Antwerp in Belgium on a transit visa. Erich arrived in Antwerp and immediately returned the Antwerp-Montevideo ticket to Alfred and went on to Brussels.

In 1938 Lisl, because of her cookery qualifications, was able to obtain a visa for England to escape the persecution of Jews in Vienna. She traveled via Paris as she had a transit visa for France. As this flight from Vienna to Prague was already fully booked when she attempted to obtain a ticket she was unable to catch her intended connecting flight from Vienna to Paris.  This proved fortuitous as that flight crashed killing its passengers. Instead she caught a train to Paris and spent a week with Fritzi before leaving for England.

 She was sponsored by an English couple as a housemaid and left Vienna with one suitcase, unable to speak a word of English. This proved to be disastrous. Lisl discovered that her employers were “liars”, who were unable to help her as they themselves were very poor and had children to support. She stayed with that family in England for about 6 weeks. Erich at this time was in Brussels, where he worked with refugees.  It was decided that Lisl should join him in Brussels.  She was able to obtain permission from the British employment office to leave the UK for a week on the grounds of her fiancé’s ill health. Although she had a re-entry permit for England the Belgians allowed her to stay with Erich.  He worked for the refugee committee as a doctor but like all the other refugees received support and a small amount of money for taking care of the refugees.

In Brussels she was befriended by the Koppelmans, Polish Jews from Lodz, who had established a corset shop in the main street. Mrs Koppelman made the corsets while her husband was the salesman. This couple helped Lisl in many ways. They introduced her to a family whose maid had left, so she became the housekeeper and carer for their daughter. During this time Lisl lived in a furnished room. The Koppelmans looked after Lisl and Erich her fiancé, even organising their wedding.

This was intended to be a double wedding with Dr Fuchs and his fiancée Eva. The wedding had to be postponed because Dr Fuchs was jailed even though the couple had come with appropriate papers. Since enormous numbers of refugees came to Belgium at that time illegally they arrested many of them to bring the influx to an end. Many were also sent back over the border after being in a detention camp. Fortunately Dr Fuchs was released so the double civil wedding took place in Brussels on 28th November 1938 at the registry office.

The newlyweds were desperate to leave Europe. Although they had family in the Cuba they were unable to assist.  Sometime earlier, Erich’s sister, Lisa, was working in an import export business. A Polish Jew Gustav Star from Australia, visiting this business to purchase goods, required someone who spoke English to write letters for him. Lisa was competent in English and helped him. The grateful man promised to help her if she ever needed anything. When Lisa contacted him about her brother and sister-in-law, he agreed to help if at all possible. He wrote to the Australian immigration department about the couple in Brussels who desperately needed to leave. He had seen an advertisement asking for doctors to work in the country. Mr Star went personally to Canberra to obtain visas for Erich and Lisl.  On Monday the 30th November, two days after their wedding a letter came from Canberra with the permits. It proved to be a very welcome wedding gift, one of the very few they received, but a good one.

The couple struggled to find the money for tickets to travel to Australia and the 200 pounds landing money required by the Australian government. Lisl had some gold jewelry inherited from her parents, which they sent to London to be sold, but which raised only 40 pounds.  The rest of the money which they promised to repay, was loaned by Jacques Ziegler who worked for the Rothschild Bank.  He sent them 200 pounds of which 30 pounds was a wedding present, and the rest they repaid after their arrival in Sydney. An additional loan from American JOINT organization enabled them to pay for their fares. This they paid back in Australia in instalments whenever they had some spare money. Very few of the refugees did that.

ARRIVING IN THEIR NEW COUNTRY

It was many months after their wedding before they could set sail for Australia, finally arriving in Sydney on the 21st of June, 1939. 

The only person they knew in Sydney was Gustav Star, who had promised to meet them off the boat. Lisl describes how awful their arrival was.  Everybody on the boat had people to pick up them up but for the Zieglers nobody came. Mr Star was not there at the boat, so they sat waiting for hours.  The ship had arrived at about 6 o’clock in the morning.  Mr Star eventually arrived at about 10 o’clock to take them to his home. All the Stars’ friends and neighbours, a sort of small community of Russian and Polish Jews came to greet the new arrivals and were very friendly. One of the Stars’ next door neighbours was Mr Cantor.  The day before their arrival, the Cantors’ maid had accidently chopped off one finger. The Cantors were desperately in need of somebody to take care of their 7 year old daughter Aviva, as Mrs Cantor was in business. Realising the Zieglers were reliable people they asked Lisl whether she would like to help in the house and look after their child.   

Lisl had a job on the first day she arrived in Australia. The couples became good friends and remained so for years to come.

  Lisl and friends in Australia
From left to right, Lisl, Sadie Cantor, Malka Star, Rosa Leigh, ?

Back: Kurt Schiller, Walter Ziegler, Erich Ziegler, Renee Maisel, Hans Schiller

Middle: Greta Schiller, Hedy Mechner (NY), Elsa Weiszenstein, Ruth Whyte Provet

Front: Irma Ziegler, Adolph Mechner (NY), Lisl Ziegler, Clare Schiller

Lisl was disappointed in Mr Star, who was not able to provide them with anything other than advice, which Lisl felt was “not useful”. However, he did introduce them to other migrants who had been in Australia for some time. The couple lived in a furnished room. After working for the Cantors, Lisl was able to find work in a clothing factory owned by a Polish man who employed her to finish garments, sewing on buttons etc.   Despite finding the factory owner very helpful, Lisl felt “useless” and left the factory after 3 months. She then sold ties door to door and despite her initial lack of English was very successful.

Mr Star, together with friends, managed to build two blocks of flats in Paddington. Lisl and Erich were installed as caretakers, which entitled them to a rent free apartment enabling them to rent out one room. Lisl was an exceptionally good cook, she cooked and sold meals to many Jewish people.  Food was quite cheap and Lisl was able to earn some extra money with the meals she provided.

In Sydney Lisl and Erich lived near the Russian-born Harris family who were wonderful neighbours and later acted as god parents to their children.

Erich was unable to find work as his medical degree was not recognised in Australia. The only route to registration was a three-year University course.            He enrolled but was not accepted at Sydney University but gained entrance to a course in Adelaide.  To go from Sydney to Adelaide for exams twice a year, was quite a “ridiculous” thing, but he agreed to do this.

Then the war broke out and the Zieglers were deemed enemy aliens. Enemy aliens were not allowed to go out of their suburb, let alone to a different city.  So the option of the Adelaide medical course was no longer viable.   As enemy aliens they had to report to the police once a week.

Eventually, the Australians understood the difference, and the Zieglers were classified as “friendly aliens”, but were still required to report to the police.   With the outbreak of war Australian doctors joined up to fight and Australia was suddenly left with a shortage of doctors, particularly in the country. A medical emergency service was created under a regulation allowing foreign doctors to practice under license, but only at a given place and not one of their own choosing.  To qualify they had to undergo a series of written examinations to assess their knowledge and see how fluent they were in English.   Lisl feels the overseas doctors were “tricked” because when they finally came to sit the exams, they were given 3 consecutive written exams over 3 hours.  This was not easy and Lisl’s comment “that this was not nice” is an understatement. Although the doctors were needed Lisl believes that the Australian doctors were afraid and jealous of the foreign doctors.  Only a third of all the doctors who sat for the exams, passed.  Erich, with limited English, was able to use his knowledge of Latin to help him complete the exams.   Erich was one of the few who passed and he was posted to East Gresford, 200 miles from Sydney. Off they went, with their newly born son, John born in November 1942. 

East Gresford was a township of 300 people living within a radius of 30 miles and a further population of 3000 in the vicinity. The nearest hospital was in Maitland 27 miles away, as was the nearest doctor. There was no pharmacy.  Erich had a dispensary and Lisl helped him make up the bottles of medicine. Erich was paid a small salary by the government and given a rent free house and a car, which he had to learn to drive.

The people of Gresford were very friendly. They had never before in their lives seen a foreigner, let alone a Jew.        At that time Australian Catholics and Protestants did not mix socially, so being Jewish and not hiding the fact, the Zieglers were neutral and so eventually were befriended by both groups.   The Catholic Church was directly opposite the medical practice so the worshippers would go to 7 am mass then visit the surgery and have breakfast at the Ziegler’s open house, rather than eat as they were used to in their cars.

They spent five years in the country.  Aviva’s was born in 1944 and Lisl came to the Women’s Hospital in Sydney.  It was a difficult birth due to the position of the baby in the womb. After Aviva was born Lisl had a maid to help her.  

The children didn’t grow up speaking German because Lisl and Erich thought it wasn’t polite to speak German in front of the maid and perhaps because “German” was the language of the “enemy”.

ERICH, THE COUNTRY DOCTOR

Lisl enjoyed living in the country where she made very good friends and fitted in easily, taking an active role in the local Country Women’s Association.  Dr Ziegler ran a general practice with Lisl enjoying the role of receptionist. The couple were totally accepted for themselves. Lisl says they were never regarded as outsiders although they were foreigners and Jews unable to speak good English.

Having two small children to care for without family support was difficult.  However, Lisl enjoyed the visits of her European friends from Sydney who came to Gresford for holidays.

When the Zieglers announced that they were leaving Gresford the towns’ people formed a committee to persuade then to stay. When it was obvious that they were leaving, a huge farewell banquet was organized which everyone attended.  Presentations were made to both the couple and the two children.

30 years later Aviva returned with Lisl to the town for a short visit to film a reunion for her documentary film “What is a Jew to You”, the townspeople were overjoyed to see them both.

On returning to Sydney Erich took a position as a caretaker to a Polish doctor who was very unwell. He wanted someone to look after his house and practice and see his patients when he was too ill to do so. Erich found this to be an impossible situation as he would sit in the living room until the doctor felt too ill to see his patients and would ask Erich to take over.

In 1948 Erich applied for a position advertised in the medical Journal for a doctor at Warragamba, where a dam was being built. He was a member of a team consisting of two doctors, two nurses and an ambulance who looked after the workers and their families. Erich was on a fixed salary and given free accommodation. They stayed in Warragamba for two and a half years.

Eventually the family moved back to Sydney where Erich bought an established solo general practice in Auburn, a working-class outer suburb of Sydney. As they needed a loan for the purchase they asked for help from Mr Harris.   However, Mr Harris lent the money interest free which made the couple feel obligated to repay the loan as quickly as possible. Lisl says this meant that the couple deprived themselves and she was unable to have a washing machine and did everything for the whole family herself, which she found very hard. She feels that they repaid the loan too quickly making life very difficult for a time.

Lisl again enjoyed working as Erich’s receptionist and also his book keeper.  She was very good with names and faces which was helpful to Erich, who although a very kind, caring and compassionate doctor was not good at names. Initially they lived at the practice which was in a large four bedroom weatherboard house. In addition to the surgery and waiting room there was also a living and dining room. An old patient of the practice, Mrs Woodward, whom the family called “grandma” helped Lisl in the house eventually living in a bed sitting room (granny flat) which they had built in the back yard.

They lived in the Auburn house for a long time and became members of Strathfield Synagogue, where John had his Barmitzvah. John and Aviva went to Auburn North Primary School and then John attended Parramatta High and Aviva Strathfield High.

As well as being involved with Strathfield synagogue Lisl became very involved with WIZO Negba, eventually becoming president of this group of 80-90 members. She was an active and efficient organiser of meetings and fund raising functions. She found her involvement in WIZO exciting and made many good friends within the group. In 1962 she supported Aviva as a candidate in the WIZO Queen Competition, which Aviva won by raising the most money. The money raised by WIZO Negba went to support children’s homes and homes for battered women and other worthwhile projects in Israel.

On two occasions Lisl visited Israel to attend WIZO conventions and was able to visit the institutions to which WIZO Negba had contributed funds – a very satisfying experience! 

In appreciation of Lisl’s dedication and hard work for WIZO she was made a Honorary Life Member of WIZO NSW.  She is very proud of her time with WIZO.

Lisl found running Wizo Negba from Auburn difficult but was too busy to mind living there. She had learnt to drive in the country with a local policeman as the assessor. Lisl remembers that he informed her that if she was game to drive her children around he would give her a license. 

Erich’s Auburn practice became very busy so he took on a partner. This eventually proved to be problematical.

As the practice expanded the house in Auburn became too small. The Zieglers bought a larger, very nice federation house in Strathfield. Erich wanted to move the practice to Strathfield but Lisl was adamant that she wanted a family home and that the practice should remain in Auburn. She became more involved with Strathfield Synagogue and became part of the Strathfield Jewish Community. Lisl went to the synagogue with her children particularly on the High Holydays. She has always felt very Jewish. Reverend Goran became a close friend. Erich was a very infrequent attendee as he had little time to spare and had other things to think about. Erich, like Lisl’s father, tended towards atheism. However, the family had regular Friday Shabbat dinners.

Lisl enjoyed the many successful parties that were held at the Strathfield house, many of them fund raising opportunities for WIZO and JNF. Despite her involvement with the community Lisl still assisted Erich as his receptionist.

As well as all the community involvement Lisl enjoyed cooking for her family.

Using the skills she had learnt in Vienna her family were served beautifully cooked Viennese specialties such as beef or veal Goulash with Knockerl or Semmelknödel and many pork dishes as well as deserts like apricot dumplings and sweets such as vanilla Kipflerl Biscuits  and Biskotten Torte. She even made her own noodles.

In 1962, when John was a third year medical student, Erich had a heart attack.

He recovered well and continued to work.  Unfortunately tragedy struck when Erich at age 63 suffered a severe stroke that Lisl feels was brought on by the behavior of his partner. The partner had set up a surgery in his own home a few blocks away and one day simply cancelled his partnership agreement with Erich.  When Erich became ill the partner took everything out of Erich’s office including the furniture and case histories leaving it almost empty. After six months in hospital Erich survived another six years at home, with Lisl caring for him with the help of Aviva.  (By this time John was married with two small children.)            

Lisl found this a very difficult time. Although Erich had difficulty communicating, which frustrated him, Lisl feels he was better at coping with the situation than she was.  He had very little speech and tried to communicate in German which Lisl found nerve wracking. Neither she nor Aviva had much respite from the caring role.

Occasionally they were able to take Erich to the 21 Restaurant in Double Bay for a meal where the son of the original owner helped them get Erich into the restaurant and settled. 

Erich eventually had a heart attack and died in the emergency department of the hospital.  Aviva was on a rare trip away at the time visiting family in New York.

When Erich died Lisl was bereft and immobilised by grief.  Aviva came to the rescue by suggesting that her mother should take a position as a receptionist at the Family Planning Association of NSW in Chippendale.  Aviva had heard about the position from a friend.  This Lisl feels was lifesaving as it gave her something to do which she enjoyed. She worked in this role for 14-15 years; Lisl lived on her own after Erich’s death, eventually moving to the Eastern suburbs to an apartment in Paul Street, Bondi Junction. For many years she was able to look after herself doing her own shopping and cooking.  Sadly Lisl was diagnosed with Macular Degeneration and Glaucoma that became worse as she aged, this was a hard blow for Lisl and has limited her freedom and is the bane of her life.  In later years she had a live-in carer, Julia, who assisted her before moving to the Montefiore Home in Randwick.  At the Montefiore, Julia is still a regular fixture in Lisl’s care and well-being.  Before coming to Monte Lisl tried two other nursing homes which she did not like.

Aviva visits almost daily, alternating with Julia’s visits. Aviva looks after Lisl’s schedule of activities and visitors. Lisl goes regularly to John’s house for Friday night Shabbat dinner.

Lisl has a large extended family consisting of her two children, three grandchildren and seven great-grandchildren.

John and Mary’s Family

Back: Noah , John, Debbie, Fred, David, Miriam, Liat, Mary and Tara

Seated: Naomi, David, Jessica, Sarah, Livia and Ben

John followed the family tradition set by his paternal grandfather and father by studying medicine.  John has had a very distinguished career. He graduated in Medicine from the University of Sydney in 1966. He gained membership of the Royal Australian College of Physicians in 1969 the same year that he married Mary Stein in 1969 and they have three children Naomi, David and Debbie.

John and Mary

Lisl with grandchildren Naomi, Debbie and David

This was followed by him obtaining his Fellowship in 1974 and he was awarded an MD by the University of NSW (UNSW) in 1995 and a Graduate Diploma in Higher Education at UNSW in 1998.  He trained in Clinical Immunology at St Vincent’s Hospital in Sydney where Professor Ron Penny was his mentor. The Penny family became close friends of the Zieglers.  Naomi Penny was a niece of the Cantors whom they had known since the day they arrived in Sydney.

John joined Sydney Children’s Hospital in 1975 and UNSW in 1977 where he is a Professor and until recently was head of the Department of Immunology and Infectious Diseases and the HIV Service of Sydney Children’s Hospital.

In 2009 he was awarded membership of the Order of Australia (AM).

After leaving school Aviva went to business college.  She then worked, saved her money and began travelling the world.  For more than four years she lived in New York, Vienna and Israel.  In the years she spent in Vienna, Aviva became particularly close to Lisl’s sister, Fritzi and her family – a very strong connection that remains until today.

 Aviva was always interested in the arts and when she finally returned permanently to Australia she embarked on what proved to be an award-winning career in television.                         

Today Aviva is considered one of Australia’s most experienced and highly regarded documentary filmmakers.   Her film “Quentin”, the highest rating documentary ever seen on Australian television, won a Logie for Best Documentary” as did “Facing the Demons” some years later.

She is probably best known for “Plumpton High Babies”, a four-part, documentary series screened on the ABC in 2003 and her follow-up “Plumpton High 10 Years On”.   And a documentary, “What is a Jew to You?”

Lisl is very proud of both her children and grandchildren.  Her grandson, David, has followed the family tradition into medicine and is a renowned paediatric oncologist, haematologist and bone marrow transplant physician. He is an Associate Professor of paediatrics and children’s health and has a special interest in neuro-oncology and cares for children with benign and malignant brain tumours. He is a researcher in developing and testing new treatments for children with relapsed and refractory cancers. He is married to Miriam (née Moses), a lawyer who works as a mediator in the family court, and has four children, Liat, Ben, Sara and Livia.

The Ziegler Family

Liat, Livia, David, Miriam, Sarah and Ben

Debbie, the eldest, a lawyer who is a member of a tribunal, is married to Alfred Linker, another lawyer.  Fred heads the regional legal department of a large American communications company.  They have three children, Noah, Tara and Jessica.  

Linker Family

Debbie, Tara, Jessica, Fred and Noah

Youngest child Naomi is married to David Cappe, another health professional, and works in a government position as a transport planner. 

Naomi and David’s Wedding

Lisl surrounded by

Miriam, David, Debbie, Fred, Aviva, John, Mary, Naomi and David

Lisl had two nieces, Fritzi’s daughters, living in Vienna but unfortunately one was killed in a car accident. During Erich’s illness Fritzi visited Australia several times. In turn Lisl visited Vienna several times when her sister developed cancer. On her last visit she arrived to find Fritzi already in a coma from which she did not recover. Erich had two sisters who lived in NY with their families.   Lisl visited with them often.

Despite all the difficult times Lisl feels that overall she has had a lucky life. Although difficult at times, she and Fritzi coped with the illness and premature deaths of both their parents and survived the Nazis. Lisl feels she had a good marriage. She and Erich established a comfortable life in Australia and produced two very successful children. Although Erich’s illness and subsequent death was a big blow, Lisl established a new life for herself but admits there was always a gap.

PDF of Lisl Ziegler – Montefiore Life History Project